Thread: California bar exam tutor: Whitney Roberts vs Vivian Dempsey

I'm posting this from another thread because I'm hoping that it will be helpful to someone out here:

This last time I took the bar (my 2nd time), I studied with Vivian. She sometimes misstates the law, but I learned far more law with her than I ever did with BarBri because she made it manageable. Having said that, I still failed the second time. And it was because of my writing (I got a 138 raw/152 scaled MBE). In fact, my writing scores were the exact same as they were the first time around when I didn't know what the hell I was doing and really hadn't learned the law very well (I was too burned out after law school). Moreover, only 1 of 18 in our Los Angeles class passed the Feb. 2011 CBX... which is terrible (we all have emailed one another; that's how I know). Vivian did show up for every class, though, and I could call her any time.

This time, I'm taking Steve Liosi (BarPerfect). Vivian focused on memorizing the law and practicing. Steve focuses on analysis and practicing. I'm hoping that Steve will give me what I need to pass. I don't need to learn the law so much anymore after Vivian's class, but I think that she graded exams so long ago that she perhaps has lost touch with precisely "how" to show the examiners that you are writing in an analytical way.

Hope this helps someone out there. I'll update in November after getting results from this July's CBX.

Originally Posted by Anonymous

Took Vivian in the fall of 2009. Great, Great class and instructor. She is the only class I have ever taken. I raised my "raw written" score by 80 pts after taking her class, and I anticipate another jump of at least 5pts per essay and PT this time around. The procedure she teaches for taking the essays and PT is like cheating. At one point during her class I actually told her that her class was like cheating. Of course there is no way to actually cheat the California Bar Exam, but when you know her technique for writing the PT's, you'll understand what I mean.
Too old? Why would you say that? Vivian is not a track athlete, she is a thinker, analyzer, reasoner. How could she be too old? Don't take cheap shots at her, makes you look like a bitter bonnie.
Outdated info? When you take her class she will show you all of the actual issues tested by the Ca.Bar exam over the past 30yrs....PEOPLE, the issues are repeated over and over again. I mean it is a standardized test, meaning everybody must have the same answers, so they cannot test surprise issues.
Money issue? I'm a poor boy from the bad part of town, and so coming up with the 5K was hard for me too. But, watching my dumber class-mates make hundreds of thousands of dollars while I study is harder. OK, the deal with the money is that you can pay half down and half in 5-6 weeks latter. I actually had a problem with my second payment and she did not kick me out of the class and worked with me...so the talk about Vivian being more interested in the money is totally incorrect
Advice to make class better. 1-take class as soon as possible. try to take class while in law school, heck before law school. 2-know the black letter law before her class. 3-Ask her for extra "sample test and model answers", she has them. 4-have her grade as many tests as you can possibly do in the class time frame. 5-believe...- - probably the biggest thing. Many of these people complaining have taken so many other classes, they are totally scatter brain. I talked to some of these types in her class and it is sad because they don't believe any of their former instructors either.
REFERRAL - If you want to pass the California Bar Exam, you must take Vivian. In fact when I pass in November, I would like to pay for a scholorship so that another person in my spot can take her class....that is how strongly I feel about her class.
Charles.

Charles = Vivian

Yeah, Vivian has a frightful temper and a way of verbally berating students who disagree with her, when all they want to do is learn. Steve Liosi seems scary--I made some casual inquiries about his classes. He sent me some free materials and then started to email flame me because I didn't sign up for his class (I was a bit gun-shy about loony bar teachers after Vivian proved to be crazy and implied I had a learning disability because I just didn't know the law--no one has ever said that before in my life or since!!). As a result, I took BarPassers and did their remote program. BEST THING I DID. If you are a reasonably good/structured writer but just don't know the law, just follow their program and do tons of PMBR MBE practice questions, logging all the law you didn't know that caused you to get a PMBR question wrong.

The bar is much better if self-taught with just the Bar Passers mailing you grades on your essays so that you can improve. No need for the stress of bar charlatans like Vivian or Steve Liosi trying to manipulate you during an already stressful time. Just do what you need to do on your own--avoid Dempsey like the plague--she is crazy and only her PT strategy of breaking it down into 3 parts/headers is good (but who doesn't do well on the PT?!). And, I'm personally afraid of Steve Liosi after he referred to me in an email as a "wishy washy flake who will never pass without his help" (yes, direct quote) when I just stopped responding to his pleadings to take his class.

Originally Posted by inga

I'm posting this from another thread because I'm hoping that it will be helpful to someone out here:

This last time I took the bar (my 2nd time), I studied with Vivian. She sometimes misstates the law, but I learned far more law with her than I ever did with BarBri because she made it manageable. Having said that, I still failed the second time. And it was because of my writing (I got a 138 raw/152 scaled MBE). In fact, my writing scores were the exact same as they were the first time around when I didn't know what the hell I was doing and really hadn't learned the law very well (I was too burned out after law school). Moreover, only 1 of 18 in our Los Angeles class passed the Feb. 2011 CBX... which is terrible (we all have emailed one another; that's how I know). Vivian did show up for every class, though, and I could call her any time.

This time, I'm taking Steve Liosi (BarPerfect). Vivian focused on memorizing the law and practicing. Steve focuses on analysis and practicing. I'm hoping that Steve will give me what I need to pass. I don't need to learn the law so much anymore after Vivian's class, but I think that she graded exams so long ago that she perhaps has lost touch with precisely "how" to show the examiners that you are writing in an analytical way.

Hope this helps someone out there. I'll update in November after getting results from this July's CBX.

By the way, I passed w/Steve Liosi. He is great with analysis, but you need to remember to text him with every email that you send because, otherwise, he doesn't check that email.